Hi everyone, This patch is finally ready for review! What has been done for Petrucci/mensural/neomensural: ...
12 years, 7 months ago
(2011-09-12 01:44:33 UTC)
#1
Hi everyone,
This patch is finally ready for review!
What has been done for Petrucci/mensural/neomensural:
* Stems centered around the attachment point.
* Attachment point lowered.
* Brevis/longa/maxima pointing downward.
* Use the left-stemmed longa in ligatures.
* A larger hole height for brevis/longa/maxima on staff line.
What has been done for Petrucci only:
* Better notehead design.
Regards,
Bertrand
there are problems: the patch as is fails the mensural-ligatures regtest. see below. p http://codereview.appspot.com/4639065/diff/13002/lily/mensural-ligature.cc ...
12 years, 7 months ago
(2011-09-12 19:16:26 UTC)
#3
Thanks for your reviews! On 2011/09/12 19:16:26, benko.pal wrote: > http://codereview.appspot.com/4639065/diff/13002/lily/mensural-ligature.cc#newcode147 > lily/mensural-ligature.cc:147: Direction stem_dir ...
12 years, 7 months ago
(2011-09-12 22:24:24 UTC)
#4
Thanks for your reviews!
On 2011/09/12 19:16:26, benko.pal wrote:
>
http://codereview.appspot.com/4639065/diff/13002/lily/mensural-ligature.cc#ne...
> lily/mensural-ligature.cc:147: Direction stem_dir = stem ? get_grob_direction
> (stem) : CENTER;
> this is unneeded: there are no stemmed notes within ligaturae.
I am a total ligature newbie. But I see some stemmed notes in
input/regression/mensural-ligatures.ly .
Of course, I agree that there's a bug. I fixed it in a new patch set.
Bertrand.
hi Bertrand, > I am a total ligature newbie. But I see some stemmed notes ...
12 years, 7 months ago
(2011-09-13 07:38:46 UTC)
#6
hi Bertrand,
> I am a total ligature newbie. But I see some stemmed notes in
> input/regression/mensural-ligatures.ly .
initial and middle stems are drawn separately (see later if-blocks
of MLP_STEM and add-join), final ones are part of a longa notehead.
> Of course, I agree that there's a bug. I fixed it in a new patch set.
looks good and clever, but I can't actually test it now;
perhaps tonight I'll have the time.
I hope you've checked the regtests.
thanks,
p
On 2011/09/12 22:37:05, janek wrote: > i've looked at latest screenshot attached to tracker issue ...
12 years, 7 months ago
(2011-09-13 13:50:04 UTC)
#7
On 2011/09/12 22:37:05, janek wrote:
> i've looked at latest screenshot attached to tracker issue and... wow! It
looks
> really great!
Thanks a lot :)
>
http://codereview.appspot.com/4639065/diff/13002/ly/engraver-init.ly#newcode1063
> ly/engraver-init.ly:1063: \override Stem #'thickness = #2
> I'd make them just a bit thinner, perhaps 1.8. I think that 2 might get too
> thick with smaller font-size (as font-size decreases, the relative thickness
> increases).
You're right, I'll do that. Do you want to make a patch that sets some other
parameters for the PetrucciStaff?
>
http://codereview.appspot.com/4639065/diff/13002/mf/parmesan-noteheads.mf#new...
> mf/parmesan-noteheads.mf:272: nm_red_holeheight := 2.5 linethickness;
> I'd make this 3 linethickness.
That's what I tried at first, but this strangely looks more readable with 2.5.
But I haven't yet compared printed results of different sizes, so you're maybe
right.
>
http://codereview.appspot.com/4639065/diff/13002/mf/parmesan-noteheads.mf#new...
> mf/parmesan-noteheads.mf:329: nm_width := staff_space#;
> if i'm not mistaken and these are the height and width of half and quarter
> noteheads, i'd make them very slightly bigger - something like
> nm_height := 1.1 noteheight#;
> 329 nm_width := 1.05 staff_space#;
Do you know what neomensural and mensural styles are inspired of? I always
thought these notes were tiny, but it's maybe intended. As I am not an expert, I
kept the shapes as is, but a rebuild would be great since we could get rid of
draw_diamond_head (and finally have good ancient fonts).
Anyway, the next steps will be (in order) to redesign the ancient rests,
accidentals, clefs, time signatures and flags. Do I count you in?
Bertrand
12 years, 7 months ago
(2011-09-13 16:25:07 UTC)
#9
2011/9/13 <bordage.bertrand@gmail.com>:
>
http://codereview.appspot.com/4639065/diff/13002/ly/engraver-init.ly#newcode1063
>>
>> ly/engraver-init.ly:1063: \override Stem #'thickness = #2
>> I'd make them just a bit thinner, perhaps 1.8. I think that 2 might
>> get too thick with smaller font-size (as font-size decreases,
>> the relative thickness increases).
>
> You're right, I'll do that. Do you want to make a patch that sets some
> other parameters for the PetrucciStaff?
No, i have little experience with ancient music and therefore i don't
have any more ideas what could use some fine-tuning.
...actually, one things comes to my mind: staffline thickness. It may
be worth considering to make them a bit thicker.
In that case, the tail of longa note should be thickened a bit, too
(from 1.3 to 1.4 linethickness?). In fact, they may be thickened even
if we don't change PetrucciStaff's linethickness.
>
http://codereview.appspot.com/4639065/diff/13002/mf/parmesan-noteheads.mf#new...
>>
>> mf/parmesan-noteheads.mf:272: nm_red_holeheight := 2.5 linethickness;
>> I'd make this 3 linethickness.
>
> That's what I tried at first, but this strangely looks more readable
> with 2.5. But I haven't yet compared printed results of different sizes,
> so you're maybe right.
That's surprising... I may try to print a test file myself,
but i can't promise anything since i don't have good enough
printer and therefore would need to go find a print shop first.
>
http://codereview.appspot.com/4639065/diff/13002/mf/parmesan-noteheads.mf#new...
>>
>> mf/parmesan-noteheads.mf:329: nm_width := staff_space#;
>> if these are the height and width of half and quarter
>> noteheads, i'd make them very slightly bigger - something like
>> nm_height := 1.1 noteheight#;
>> nm_width := 1.05 staff_space#;
>
> Do you know what neomensural and mensural styles are inspired of? I
> always thought these notes were tiny, but it's maybe intended. As I am
> not an expert, I kept the shapes as is, but a rebuild would be great
> since we could get rid of draw_diamond_head (and finally have good
> ancient fonts).
Well, my suggestion of increasing their size a bit was based on the
scanned example you provided. In that example quarter and half
noteheads look roughly as big as breve and longa noteheads, while the
current version of your patch makes them smaller.
> Anyway, the next steps will be (in order) to redesign the ancient rests,
> accidentals, clefs, time signatures and flags. Do I count you in?
Yes! doing font stuff can be fun :)
James: all regtest differencies seem desired to me.
cheers,
Janek
hi all, the patch is ok from my point of view. a minor question: the ...
12 years, 7 months ago
(2011-09-14 05:56:42 UTC)
#10
hi all,
the patch is ok from my point of view. a minor question: the only change
in mensural-ligatures.ly is the version bump - is that needed?
>> Do you know what neomensural and mensural styles are inspired of?
I believe it uses the shapes of noteheads found in manuscript,
but scales them to fit between staff lines like modern noteheads
so that they don't collide if used in chords (extremely rare; I've seen
them only in cadences with breves or longae, never with the diamond
shape).
have you seen the facsimiles in the message
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2010-12/msg00398.html
?
p
2011/9/14 Benkő Pál <benko.pal@gmail.com>: > hi all, > > the patch is ok from my ...
12 years, 7 months ago
(2011-09-14 17:28:10 UTC)
#11
2011/9/14 Benkő Pál <benko.pal@gmail.com>:
> hi all,
>
> the patch is ok from my point of view. a minor question: the only change
> in mensural-ligatures.ly is the version bump - is that needed?
>
>>> Do you know what neomensural and mensural styles are inspired of?
>
> I believe it uses the shapes of noteheads found in manuscript,
> but scales them to fit between staff lines like modern noteheads
> so that they don't collide if used in chords (extremely rare; I've seen
> them only in cadences with breves or longae, never with the diamond
> shape).
>
> have you seen the facsimiles in the message
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2010-12/msg00398.html
> ?
The attached file in that message must be a joke!
--
Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain)
www.paconet.org , www.csmbadajoz.com
2011/9/14 Francisco Vila <paconet.org@gmail.com>: >> have you seen the facsimiles in the message >> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2010-12/msg00398.html ...
12 years, 7 months ago
(2011-09-14 19:02:48 UTC)
#12
2011/9/14 Francisco Vila <paconet.org@gmail.com>:
>> have you seen the facsimiles in the message
>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2010-12/msg00398.html
>> ?
>
> The attached file in that message must be a joke!
aargh, my bad. as I look at it now,
it's actually a gzip-compressed tar archive,
you can unpack it by tar xzf, or renaming it to
extension .tar.gz or .tgz.
sorry,
p
hi Bertrand, > What has been done for Petrucci/mensural/neomensural: > * Stems centered around the ...
12 years, 7 months ago
(2011-09-14 21:05:28 UTC)
#13
hi Bertrand,
> What has been done for Petrucci/mensural/neomensural:
> * Stems centered around the attachment point.
> * Attachment point lowered.
> * Brevis/longa/maxima pointing downward.
> * Use the left-stemmed longa in ligatures.
exactly what is this last one?
p
New patch set (inspired by Janek's ideas). On 2011/09/14 21:05:28, benko.pal wrote: > > * ...
12 years, 7 months ago
(2011-09-15 17:08:13 UTC)
#14
New patch set (inspired by Janek's ideas).
On 2011/09/14 21:05:28, benko.pal wrote:
> > * Use the left-stemmed longa in ligatures.
>
> exactly what is this last one?
When note_shape is MLP_LONGA and the direction of the stem is UP, then the
left-stemmed longa is used.
I know, this should be Mensural_ligature_engraver's job.
The mensural ligature engraver needs to be rewritten. All the postscript stuff
should somehow be replaced with good old MetaFont.
Thanks,
Bertrand.
>> > * Use the left-stemmed longa in ligatures. > >> exactly what is this ...
12 years, 7 months ago
(2011-09-15 18:46:42 UTC)
#15
>> > * Use the left-stemmed longa in ligatures.
>
>> exactly what is this last one?
>
> When note_shape is MLP_LONGA and the direction of the stem is UP, then
> the left-stemmed longa is used.
oh, indeed. I must have messed up my build, now I see it.
unfortunately this is bad.
look at the first row of the mensural-ligatures.ly regtest:
the second LB and the second SS are indistinguishable.
> I know, this should be Mensural_ligature_engraver's job.
> The mensural ligature engraver needs to be rewritten. All the postscript
> stuff should somehow be replaced with good old MetaFont.
I don't mind that (I didn't eve know that the Stencil - Interval
manipulations were PostScript) and I'm willing to take part.
p
hi Bertrand, sorry, I messed up my build last time, and the mensural-ligatures.ly regtest is ...
12 years, 7 months ago
(2011-09-15 19:30:48 UTC)
#16
hi Bertrand,
sorry, I messed up my build last time, and the mensural-ligatures.ly regtest is
still bad. look at the first row: the last LB and last SS are
indistinguishable. 2.14 is right.
all: what would be the good place for the ligature description in the second
attachment of
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2005-02/msg00198.html
?
but let me repeat (and enhance) it here:
A ligature consists of breves, longae and maximae, joined by a vertical line.
There are some exceptions:
1. at the beginning
a. a ligature may begin with two semibreves: this is denoted by
a left upward stem. The note shapes are like breves.
b. if the second note is lower than the first (descending start),
then encoding of the duration of the first note is changed as
- a longa is denoted by a simple brevis head;
- a brevis is denoted by a left downward stem (and brevis head).
2. at the end
if the last note is lower than the penultimate one (descending end),
and it is
a. a longa, then it is represented by a brevis head;
b. a breve, then the last two notes are drawn as parallelogram
(ligatura obliqua, flexa).
This is possible only if the penultimate note would otherwise have
brevis shape, i.e. it must be a brevis, or the ligature must be
either LB or SSB
Notes:
1. reading a ligature is unabiguous; writing one is not:
a. any two brevis heads can be replaced by a flexa
(except 2.a. above; can be requested by \obliqua _between_
the two notes)
b. stems of maximae are often omitted
(this implementation omits them always).
2. theorists claim that a pair of semibreves are admitted anywhere,
but I have never seen this usage.
3. any note can be dotted or colored independently of others
(even either note of a flexa).
4. stems of longae (and maximae, if used) are always drawn down
and on the right side of the note.
http://codereview.appspot.com/4639065/diff/32001/lily/mensural-ligature.cc
File lily/mensural-ligature.cc (right):
http://codereview.appspot.com/4639065/diff/32001/lily/mensural-ligature.cc#ne...
lily/mensural-ligature.cc:150: Direction stem_dir = stem ? get_grob_direction
(stem) : CENTER;
throw these two lines out
http://codereview.appspot.com/4639065/diff/32001/lily/mensural-ligature.cc#ne...
lily/mensural-ligature.cc:175: index = prefix + ((stem_dir == UP) ? "sl" : "d");
prefix + "d"
Ok Pal, I removed the left-stemmed longa. I don't know where you could put these ...
12 years, 7 months ago
(2011-09-15 19:55:09 UTC)
#17
Ok Pal, I removed the left-stemmed longa.
I don't know where you could put these rules.
Maybe we should start a new doc part that references the established engraving
rules?
Bertrand
http://codereview.appspot.com/4639065/diff/42001/lily/note-head.cc File lily/note-head.cc (right): http://codereview.appspot.com/4639065/diff/42001/lily/note-head.cc#newcode49 lily/note-head.cc:49: } Yuck. The decision tree is complex enough that ...
12 years, 6 months ago
(2011-10-03 04:57:59 UTC)
#24
Thanks Keith, I'll quickly fix that in a new issue. http://codereview.appspot.com/4639065/diff/42001/lily/stem.cc File lily/stem.cc (right): http://codereview.appspot.com/4639065/diff/42001/lily/stem.cc#newcode853 ...
12 years, 6 months ago
(2011-10-03 08:52:27 UTC)
#25
http://codereview.appspot.com/4639065/diff/42001/lily/stem.cc File lily/stem.cc (right): http://codereview.appspot.com/4639065/diff/42001/lily/stem.cc#newcode855 lily/stem.cc:855: if (attach && !scm_is_eq (style, ly_symbol2scm ("mensural")) On 2011/10/03 ...
12 years, 6 months ago
(2011-10-03 09:30:31 UTC)
#26
http://codereview.appspot.com/4639065/diff/42001/lily/stem.cc
File lily/stem.cc (right):
http://codereview.appspot.com/4639065/diff/42001/lily/stem.cc#newcode855
lily/stem.cc:855: if (attach && !scm_is_eq (style, ly_symbol2scm ("mensural"))
On 2011/10/03 08:52:27, Bertrand Bordage wrote:
> By default, the stem is right-aligned...
Right-aligned for up-stems, left-aligned for down-stems, so that most fonts can
conveniently use the outer edges of the stencil as the attachment point, using
the character width.
If your font attaches stems differently, charwx is provided to specify the
difference.
Here you seem to change the rules (costing users time for four additional
property-lookups per stem) without updating mf/README with your change to the
rules.
Issue 4639065: Improves some parmesan noteheads.
(Closed)
Created 12 years, 10 months ago by Bertrand Bordage
Modified 8 years, 1 month ago
Reviewers: lemzwerg, benko.pal, janek, pkx166h, pacovila, Keith
Base URL:
Comments: 22