Issue 349810043: ly: updates to hel-arabic.ly (Closed)
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Created:
5 years, 4 months ago by lilypond-pkx Modified:
5 years, 3 months ago CC:
lilypond-devel_gnu.org, hassan.elfatihi_free.fr Visibility:
Public. |
Descriptionly: updates to hel-arabic.ly
Changes suggested by Hassan Elfatihi
Minor Typos fixed
irak, rahatalarouah and alboustankar
are all redundant as they are all the same
mode as 'rast'.
Sajkar mode is never used so this has been
removed.
Patch Set 1 #
Total comments: 8
Patch Set 2 : Typo fixed and additional comments added within file. #MessagesTotal messages: 12
I don’t know anything about arabic music but there are some changes that look strange to me. https://codereview.appspot.com/349810043/diff/1/ly/hel-arabic.ly File ly/hel-arabic.ly (left): https://codereview.appspot.com/349810043/diff/1/ly/hel-arabic.ly#oldcode73 ly/hel-arabic.ly:73: %% Sajakar: c' d' edb' f' g' ab' b' c'' c'' bb' a' g' f' edb' d' c' Is this “never used” in the same way as locrian mode, i. e. only in theory? https://codereview.appspot.com/349810043/diff/1/ly/hel-arabic.ly#oldcode248 ly/hel-arabic.ly:248: %% Irak: bdb c d edb f g a bdb bb a g f edb d c bdb Are these identical to “rast” in the same way ionian is to major? Then I wouldn’t delete them. Maybe simply #(define iraq rast) or iraq = \rast https://codereview.appspot.com/349810043/diff/1/ly/hel-arabic.ly#oldcode334 ly/hel-arabic.ly:334: major = #`( Does hel-arabic.ly *replace* scale-definitions-init.ly? If not, these definitions are redundant. https://codereview.appspot.com/349810043/diff/1/ly/hel-arabic.ly File ly/hel-arabic.ly (right): https://codereview.appspot.com/349810043/diff/1/ly/hel-arabic.ly#newcode158 ly/hel-arabic.ly:158: (4 . FLAT) Should be ,FLAT (with comma). Or ,SHARP == 1/2?
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Hello I am hassan el fatihi author of hel-arabic.ly. I corrected some minimal errors. 20 makams are working properly. I can give you examples if you wish. I use the hel-arabic.ly file since 2009. Makam sajkar is from the rast family, with slight modifications The makam irak notes can be written with the key of rast: \ key c \ rast (same thing for rahatalarouah and alboustankar). If you need more information, I am at your disposal. Thank you
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On 2018/12/12 15:44:15, hassan.elfatihi_free.fr wrote: > Hello > > I am hassan el fatihi author of hel-arabic.ly. > > I corrected some minimal errors. > > 20 makams are working properly. I can give you examples if you wish. > > I use the hel-arabic.ly file since 2009. > > Makam sajkar is from the rast family, with slight modifications > > The makam irak notes can be written with the key of rast: \ key c \ rast (same > thing for > > rahatalarouah and alboustankar). > > If you need more information, I am at your disposal. > > Thank you Hassan can you answer the specific questions from Malte please? I cannot answer them. You can reply directly to Malte in his entry above. I can them make any adjustments as necessary. Regards James
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Hello James What are the questions posed by Malt. I want to answer it. Best regards Hassan
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> On 12 Dec 2018, at 09:55, lilypond@maltemeyn.de wrote: > > I don’t know anything about arabic music but there are some changes that > look strange to me. FYI, Adam Good expressed interest updating the Arabic and Persian files for LilyPond [1]. I have sent him a file with maqam from the site [2]. 1. https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2018-11/msg00105.html 2. https://www.maqamworld.com/en/
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Thanks for the review Malte https://codereview.appspot.com/349810043/diff/1/ly/hel-arabic.ly File ly/hel-arabic.ly (left): https://codereview.appspot.com/349810043/diff/1/ly/hel-arabic.ly#oldcode73 ly/hel-arabic.ly:73: %% Sajakar: c' d' edb' f' g' ab' b' c'' c'' bb' a' g' f' edb' d' c' On 2018/12/12 08:55:01, Malte Meyn wrote: > Is this “never used” in the same way as locrian mode, i. e. only in theory? From Hassan: rast : c d edb f g a bdb c sajkar : c dd edb f g a bdb c rast = #`( (0 . ,NATURAL) (1 . ,NATURAL) (2 . ,SEMI-FLAT) (3 . ,NATURAL) (4 . ,NATURAL) (5 . ,NATURAL) (6 . ,SEMI-FLAT) ) This is rast with the altered note in dd (dis). That's why musicians arabic use rast by altering the note d in dd (dis) %% Sajakar: c dd edb f g a bdb (good) sajkar = #`( (0 . ,NATURAL) (1 . ,SHARP) (2 . ,SEMI-FLAT) (3 . ,NATURAL) (4 . ,NATURAL) (5 . ,NATURAL) (6 . ,SEMI-FLAT) ) it replaces ( an error here in hel-arabic.ly ) (bad ) sajkar = #`( (0 . ,NATURAL) (1 . ,NATURAL) (2 . ,SEMI-FLAT) (3 . ,NATURAL) (4 . ,NATURAL) (5 . ,FLAT) (6 . ,NATURAL) ) https://codereview.appspot.com/349810043/diff/1/ly/hel-arabic.ly#oldcode248 ly/hel-arabic.ly:248: %% Irak: bdb c d edb f g a bdb bb a g f edb d c bdb On 2018/12/12 08:55:01, Malte Meyn wrote: > Are these identical to “rast” in the same way ionian is to major? Then I > wouldn’t delete them. Maybe simply #(define iraq rast) or iraq = \rast From Hassan: No they arent' identical to rast in the same way ionian to major . in fact rast : c d edb f g a bdb c ( it also includes the note bb (bes) ) irak : bdb c d edb f g a bdb rahatalarouah : bdb c d edb fd g a bdb alboustankar : bdb c d edb f gb a bdb As you see iraq, rahatalarouah and alboustankar contain edb and bdb notes. But the rast key includes edb and bdb. So Arab musicians use the key of rast to write irak, rahatalarouah and alboustankar https://codereview.appspot.com/349810043/diff/1/ly/hel-arabic.ly#oldcode334 ly/hel-arabic.ly:334: major = #`( On 2018/12/12 08:55:01, Malte Meyn wrote: > Does hel-arabic.ly *replace* scale-definitions-init.ly? If not, these > definitions are redundant. From Hassan: hel-arabic.ly don't need scale-definitions-init.ly. in other words it replaces scale-definitions-init.ly (minor, major,... are defined in hel-arabic.ly). There is no interaction between hel-arabic.ly and scale-definitions-init.ly In addition, it uses bb (b flat) instead of bes and dd (d sharp) instead of dis for example. We write music independently. There is of course edb (e semi-flat), fdd (f semi-sharp )..... Major and minor makams exist in Arabic music. They have different names : ajam (for major) and nahawand (for minor) In conclusion I think it's better to delete them. Also Reminder: --------- hel-arabic.ly uses define-note-names.scm and lily-library.scm define-note-names.scm and lily-library.scm are not modified https://codereview.appspot.com/349810043/diff/1/ly/hel-arabic.ly File ly/hel-arabic.ly (right): https://codereview.appspot.com/349810043/diff/1/ly/hel-arabic.ly#newcode158 ly/hel-arabic.ly:158: (4 . FLAT) On 2018/12/12 08:55:01, Malte Meyn wrote: > Should be ,FLAT (with comma). Or ,SHARP == 1/2? Yes this should have a comma.
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Typo fixed and additional comments added within file.
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On 2018/12/13 17:28:50, haberg-1_telia.com wrote: > > On 12 Dec 2018, at 09:55, mailto:lilypond@maltemeyn.de wrote: > > > > I don’t know anything about arabic music but there are some changes that > > look strange to me. > > FYI, Adam Good expressed interest updating the Arabic and Persian files for > LilyPond [1]. I have sent him a file with maqam from the site [2]. > > 1. https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2018-11/msg00105.html > 2. https://www.maqamworld.com/en/ > > Turkish/Persian Maqams and are very different to Arabic Maqams so cannot - according to Hassan - be compared. James
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> On 17 Dec 2018, at 15:35, pkxgnugitcl@runbox.com wrote: > >> FYI, Adam Good expressed interest updating the Arabic and Persian > files for >> LilyPond [1]. I have sent him a file with maqam from the site [2]. > >> 1. > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2018-11/msg00105.html >> 2. https://www.maqamworld.com/en/ > > Turkish/Persian Maqams and are very different to Arabic Maqams so cannot > - according to Hassan - be compared. Note the difference in spelling: Turkish makam and Arabic maqam. And Persian dastgah. The site [2] above is of the Arabic maqam. I made a file for that in E53 with two commas for the microtones, using Graham Breed regular.ly, and Helmholtz-Ellis accidentals, cf. [3]. The Arabic maqam simply use a different set of accidental glyphs, two missing in the traditional system, the ones with arrows at [2]. It would be good if you listen to the microtonal pitches of the MIDI at [3], telling if they sound fine. 3. https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2016-02/msg00607.html
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Hassan, I'm having a little bit of difficulty following the thread because I can't seem to find the hel-arabic.ly file you're working on. Could you please point me to the file so I can play with it? Thank you in advance Adam Good On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 12:38 PM Hans Åberg <haberg-1@telia.com> wrote: > > > > On 17 Dec 2018, at 15:35, pkxgnugitcl@runbox.com wrote: > > > >> FYI, Adam Good expressed interest updating the Arabic and Persian > > files for > >> LilyPond [1]. I have sent him a file with maqam from the site [2]. > > > >> 1. > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2018-11/msg00105.html > >> 2. https://www.maqamworld.com/en/ > > > > Turkish/Persian Maqams and are very different to Arabic Maqams so cannot > > - according to Hassan - be compared. > > Note the difference in spelling: Turkish makam and Arabic maqam. And > Persian dastgah. The site [2] above is of the Arabic maqam. I made a file > for that in E53 with two commas for the microtones, using Graham Breed > regular.ly, and Helmholtz-Ellis accidentals, cf. [3]. The Arabic maqam > simply use a different set of accidental glyphs, two missing in the > traditional system, the ones with arrows at [2]. > > It would be good if you listen to the microtonal pitches of the MIDI at > [3], telling if they sound fine. > > 3. https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2016-02/msg00607.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > lilypond-devel mailing list > lilypond-devel@gnu.org > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel >
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On 2018/12/18 03:44:19, goodadamgood_gmail.com wrote: > Hassan, > I'm having a little bit of difficulty following the thread because I can't > seem to find the hel-arabic.ly file you're working on. Could you please > point me to the file so I can play with it? > > Thank you in advance > > Adam Good Adam, The diffs for the file are on this very Rietveld issue. ? I am shepherding this patch on behalf of Hassan. So all the correspondence has been via email between him and myself - although I have cut and pasted all Hassans responses to all the comments/questions the diffs in this Rietveld generated - see the questions by Malt above that were answered by Hassan. I have also attached a git formatted patch to the original Source Forge issue tracker if you want that. This is all available via either https://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/5446 or (here) http://codereview.appspot.com/349810043 regards James
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author Hassan Elfathi <hassan.elfatihi@free.fr> Wed, 12 Dec 2018 08:19:18 +0000 (08:19 +0000) committer James Lowe <pkx166h@runbox.com> Mon, 24 Dec 2018 10:40:01 +0000 (10:40 +0000) commit bb5af856e09b4008f3a6e5ff8c13c34b239ae6b9
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